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Saturday, August 26, 2017

Is there any question that Trump is a bigot anymore?

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  3. Is there any question that Trump is a bigot anymore?
Carmelo 16 hours ago#1
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist 

Trump is a bigot
andel 16 hours ago#2
there was never any question. the far worse thing is his complete ineptitude on all things his office requires, specifically foreign relations
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
Carmelo 16 hours ago#3
just watching cnn

former gop people outright calling trump a bigot 

wonder if sitting gop legislators have the same courage
reallydontknow 16 hours ago#4
ive always says he dabbled in racism....

But he sure has been doing racist and bigot like things lately.
chaos knight 16 hours ago#5
He is unquestionably a racist after today. Sheriff Joe is arguably worse than David Duke, as at least the latter didn't have the power to imprison and torture thousands of people of a particular race. Arpaio has ruined and destroyed the lives of many Hispanic people (both legal citizens and illegal immigrants), and has the gall to be proud of everything he has done. The man is disgusting.

This is one case where you can't just look the other way and try to find praise for other possible accomplishments.
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andel 16 hours ago#6
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
Carmelo 16 hours ago#7
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist
andel 16 hours ago#8
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist


sure, we knew he was a bigot from the start. that is like the least bad thing about trump though fyi
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
SpawnShadow 16 hours ago#9
Carmelo posted...
just watching cnn

former gop people outright calling trump a bigot 

wonder if sitting gop legislators have the same courage


I'd bet dollars to donuts that not only do the sitting GOP politicians not have that kind of courage, they'd happily confirm an attempt by Trump to appoint him to the Cabinet or the SCOTUS. Trump is the GOP, distilled into an allegedly-human form.
"Mjolnir: apply directly to the forehead."
(edited 16 hours ago)reportquote
Carmelo 16 hours ago#10
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist


sure, we knew he was a bigot from the start. that is like the least bad thing about trump though fyi


that's the most bad thing imo

plenty of people are incompetent. The average person would be incompetent as the president. But they're not bigots and wouldn't actively harm minorities the way Trump does
BruceWayneJr 16 hours ago#11
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist


sure, we knew he was a bigot from the start. that is like the least bad thing about trump though fyi


I doubt minorities feel that way, but oh well. It didn't matter to you f***ing people during the election.
He might be the president, but it's not his country.
TonyKojima 16 hours ago#12
BruceWayneJr posted...
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist


sure, we knew he was a bigot from the start. that is like the least bad thing about trump though fyi


I doubt minorities feel that way, but oh well. It didn't matter to you f***ing people during the election.

Nope they were tooo busy pouting and throwing tantrums because they didn't get everything they wanted.
Though the XBOX 360 is good in theory, it's hardware limitations say otherwise - Hideo Kojima 
PSN - Guncrazy56
Turtlemayor333 16 hours ago#13
reallydontknow posted...
ive always says he dabbled in racism....

But he sure has been doing racist and bigot like things lately.

Yep. He supports racists, defends racists, and has a general presence surrounding racists, but his supporters always like to chalk it up to clumsiness and coincidence. There's no smoking gun of him saying the N word or something so people give him extreme benefit of the doubt.

It's garbage. At this point Trump should just embrace it and walk around in his dad's old white robes.
Bluebomber182 16 hours ago#14
he was a racist ever since he got involved in the central park 5 case. this aint some new revelation
WWE Champ The Maharaja Jinder Mahal
YOU CAN'T HINDER THE JINDER!!!!!
EPR-radar 16 hours ago#15
tr*mp is an evil, vicious, stupid, lazy, racist, sexist and bigoted horrible excuse for a human being.

And tens of million of voters voted to put that in the White House.
andel 16 hours ago#16
BruceWayneJr posted...
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
yeah idk so much that he is actively a racist, just a moron who believes whatever he wants to hear. regardless, that is the least of our worries in regards to trump when he is incompetent at every facet of his job


nah bulls***. Joe Arpio was proved to be a racist by the courts. And he pardoned him anyway

Trump is a racist


sure, we knew he was a bigot from the start. that is like the least bad thing about trump though fyi


I doubt minorities feel that way, but oh well. It didn't matter to you f***ing people during the election.


really? i am probably further to the left than anyone here save nitro, i just realize that a f***ing narcissistic, megalomaniac with impulse control issues and no grasp of policy or how to run the country probably has issues that are much more important than him pardoning some scumbag that holds no official role or has any power anymore. it sucks and is stupid but painting that as a bigger deal than things that can endanger the lives of everyone on the planet is beyond f***ing moronic
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
andel 16 hours ago#17
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
chaos knight 16 hours ago#18
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


This is one time where I have to ask what race you are when making such a comment.
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Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
Turtlemayor333 16 hours ago#19
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest

Trump is the one worried about pardoning some 90 year old criminal while North Korea is developing nukes and a massive hurricane is hitting Texas.

Wrong priorities? Take it up with him.
Hexagon 16 hours ago#20
andel posted...
, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


I'll take a guess and say you're not a minority, because to grow up in a country and to confirm that the states elected at the very least a racist sympathizer is a pretty big blow. I don't see at all why people should ignore this over the tensions with north korea or anything else you've said. People were owned as sub-human species by people with similar ideologies to the sheriff that was pardoned. How can this be the height of ignorance?
(edited 16 hours ago)reportquote
Sephiroth4747 16 hours ago#21
A terrible person, but, unfortunately, he still can win reelection in 2020. Since America is downright stupid.
andel 16 hours ago#22
Hexagon posted...
andel posted...
, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


I'll take a guess and say you're not a minority, because to grow up in a country and to confirm that the states elected at the very least a racist sympathizer is a pretty big blow. I don't see at all why people should ignore this over the tensions with north korea or anything else you've said. People were owned as sub-human species by people with similar ideologies to the sheriff that was pardoned. How can this be the height of ignorance?


no one is saying to ignore it, i am saying that the guy that said it is the biggest negative from trump is ignorant af...like unbelievably so. trump should rightly be criticized for stupid s*** like this, but saying trump maybe being racist is the most negative thing about his being president is completely moronic
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
andel 16 hours ago#23
Turtlemayor333 posted...
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest

Trump is the one worried about pardoning some 90 year old criminal while North Korea is developing nukes and a massive hurricane is hitting Texas.

Wrong priorities? Take it up with him.


yeah i have condemned this decision in multiple topics here...saying it is the worst thing about his presidency is moronic as previously stated
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
Carmelo 16 hours ago#24
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


what the f***

Trump has not yet started a war with north korea 

Trump has already actively discriminated against trans people and is straight up consigning the discrimination against latinos 

sure he might be horrible enough that he might do even worse s*** but let's not ignore how is racism is literally hurting people right now
EPR-radar 16 hours ago#25
tr*mp is fractally evil and f***ed up, so there's no point in getting anal about which part of his horrible personality is the worst part.

That said, racists are inherently stupid and evil, and stupidity and evil aren't things you want to see in a president of the US.
andel 16 hours ago#26
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


what the f***

Trump has not yet started a war with north korea 

Trump has already actively discriminated against trans people and is straight up consigning the discrimination against latinos 

sure he might be horrible enough that he might do even worse s*** but let's not ignore how is racism is literally hurting people right now


you stated that trump potentially being racist is the worst thing about his presidency, i demonstrated that potentially endangering the lives of millions of our allies is many magnitudes more bad. if you don't understand this idk how to have a conversation with you because he cannot actually enact racist policies without being b**** slapped by the courts (which has already happened)
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
dotsdfe 16 hours ago#27
Yeah, I don't think the "He's just really stupid" defense that his supporters have tried to play up flies anymore. The man is straight-up vile.
Winner of the Third Hacked User Contest.
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hoax123 16 hours ago#28
Nope, if there were any doubts before, this settles it.
Lock her up!
TonyKojima 16 hours ago#29
hoax123 posted...
Nope, if there were any doubts before, this settles it.
Though the XBOX 360 is good in theory, it's hardware limitations say otherwise - Hideo Kojima 
PSN - Guncrazy56
Carmelo 16 hours ago#30
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


what the f***

Trump has not yet started a war with north korea 

Trump has already actively discriminated against trans people and is straight up consigning the discrimination against latinos 

sure he might be horrible enough that he might do even worse s*** but let's not ignore how is racism is literally hurting people right now


you stated that trump potentially being racist is the worst thing about his presidency, i demonstrated that potentially endangering the lives of millions of our allies is many magnitudes more bad. if you don't understand this idk how to have a conversation with you because he cannot actually enact racist policies without being b**** slapped by the courts (which has already happened)


one he's literally already enacted a bigoted trans policy 

and two yes killing millions in korea would absolutely f***ing be worse but you're saying that might be an effect of normal incompetence in which case tons of average people might be equally incompetent so yeah that's bad, the point is trump would be just as bad as a normal incompetent dude except even worse because of his bigotry
Charliesix 15 hours ago#31
i updated my list i last used last year..

1. Trump got invited onto Alex Jones show by his friend Roger Stone, who called a CNN host "a fat negro"
2. Alex jones is himself a psychotic conspiracy theorist who believes 9/11 was done by the US government
3. More recently, Alex Jones believes that Hillary Clinton is part of a Satanic cult network 
4. Trump went to the Values Voter Summit, where homophobic people make up total bulls*** about gays being pedophiles
5. Trump repeatedly re-tweeted the tweets of white supremacists, who tweeted outright racist lies about black crime rates
6. Trump's long time political aide, Sam Nunberg, openly called a black girl the n-word
7. Trump racially discriminated against people at his apartment complex
8. Trump said "laziness is a trait in blacks"
9. Trump's campaign CEO, Steve Bannon, has been repeatedly accused by people who know him (former wife, former coworker at Breitbart) of anti-Semitic and white supremacist attitudes. Bannon is being appointed a senior advisor/chief strategist role at the White House.
10. Bannon runs a website that repeatedly praised racial IQ scientists like Richwine, Rezib Khan and Charles Murray who all argue that blacks and Latinos are genetically inferior to whites in intelligence and that immigration and economic policy should adapt to this reality (ie, let in less non-whites, and reduce social benefits to non-whites). 
11. He accused a Mexican-American judge of being inherently biased against him purely because of his race
12. Eric Trump, Trump's son, appeared on a white supremacist's radio show. 
13. Just hours after being pressured to condemn white nationalists at Charlottesville, Trump retweeted a close ally of the most famous white nationalist in the country http://imgur.com/a/T24FB
14. In a transcripted conversation with Australia PM Turnbull, he said Muslim economic refugees are guaranteed to be bad people and “that’s why they’re in prison”, and thus should not be allowed into the US, despite Turnbull specifically explaining that none of them were criminals and had already been vetted.
Trump's closest adviser hired multiple white supremacists to write for Breitbart News. Evidence: http://www.breitbarttruth.com
Von23 15 hours ago#32
Now Trump is a bigot after you people already thought he was a bigot?

LMAO!

You folks really need some help.
"Decorating your own meltdowns is all well and good,but a trainwreck is a trainwreck and it might be time to get a paramedic."
(edited 15 hours ago)reportquote
andel 15 hours ago#33
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
Carmelo posted...
andel posted...
whether trump is personally racist or not is not a blip on the f***ing radar on things that matter in his presidency compared to possibly starting a war with north korea that endangers millions of lives of our allies, pretending like it is even in the same ballpark is the height of ignorance and offensive to even suggest


what the f***

Trump has not yet started a war with north korea 

Trump has already actively discriminated against trans people and is straight up consigning the discrimination against latinos 

sure he might be horrible enough that he might do even worse s*** but let's not ignore how is racism is literally hurting people right now


you stated that trump potentially being racist is the worst thing about his presidency, i demonstrated that potentially endangering the lives of millions of our allies is many magnitudes more bad. if you don't understand this idk how to have a conversation with you because he cannot actually enact racist policies without being b**** slapped by the courts (which has already happened)


one he's literally already enacted a bigoted trans policy 

and two yes killing millions in korea would absolutely f***ing be worse but you're saying that might be an effect of normal incompetence in which case tons of average people might be equally incompetent so yeah that's bad, the point is trump would be just as bad as a normal incompetent dude except even worse because of his bigotry


well yeah, i think is bigotry and ignorance definitely makes it worse, i just think he is worse than a normal incompetent person due to extreme narcissism.
I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis
Trump is a piece of s***. I will spit on his grave when he dies hopefully its soon
she got screwed up by religion. she got screwed by soccer players. she got high for the first time in the camps down by the banks of the mississippi river.
Sephiroth4747 15 hours ago#35
room temperature posted...
Trump is a piece of s***. I will spit on his grave when he dies hopefully its soon



Uh-oh...get ready for:

pc7harI
Sephiroth4747 posted...
room temperature posted...
Trump is a piece of s***. I will spit on his grave when he dies hopefully its soon



Uh-oh...get ready for:

pc7harI


I don't care. Evil should die off.
she got screwed up by religion. she got screwed by soccer players. she got high for the first time in the camps down by the banks of the mississippi river.
mrplainswalker 15 hours ago#37
There was never really any question. This is just yet more confirmation. Kind of reminds me of the late 90's when I kept hearing, "Another study showing the link between smoking and lung cancer." Every time I would think...yeah...didn't we already know that? But then we still have dips***s who don't believe in global warming no matter how many studies come out, so maybe these are the same as the stupid f***s who didn't believe smoking caused cancer. Maybe the studies were still necessary.
It's like punching a round bottom dummy. We all know it's futile, but occasionally it's fun.
- willythemailboy on the subject of stray orcas
(edited 15 hours ago)reportquote
Hexagon 14 hours ago#38
Von23 posted...
Now Trump is a bigot after you people already thought he was a bigot?

LMAO!

You folks really need some help.


FATALITY!

Death by semantics!

You win Von23!
Carmelo 14 hours ago#39
Sephiroth4747 posted...
room temperature posted...
Trump is a piece of s***. I will spit on his grave when he dies hopefully its soon



Uh-oh...get ready for:

pc7harI


this image always makes me laugh
davishippo 14 hours ago#40
Carmelo posted...
this image always makes me laugh

have another
uTtrHKt
Bell Maiden is my waifu.
Carmelo 14 hours ago#41
davishippo posted...
Carmelo posted...
this image always makes me laugh

have another
uTtrHKt


I can't get enough of this
atmasabr 14 hours ago#42
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

Yours is a scarecrow.
Do your own research!
-Kicksave- 14 hours ago#43
You know, I'm not sure if he's personally racist since in the past he's hired based on talent even if the person's black or gay. But given that he actively solicits the support of racists, advances their positions, and is hailed by them, I suppose it really makes no difference.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Rico, YOU know what to DO!
SamuelHayden 14 hours ago#44
atmasabr posted...
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

Yours is a scarecrow.


explain
aarrgus 14 hours ago#45
There was no question before, for anyone who had been paying attention. 

But at this point I have no faith in the public to see 45* for what he is. It's been clear for decades that he was a racist conman.
Last night I was lying in bed, staring at the stars, and I wondered... Where the **** is my roof?
Carmelo 14 hours ago#46
-Kicksave- posted...
You know, I'm not sure if he's personally racist since in the past he's hired based on talent even if the person's black or gay. But given that he actively solicits the support of racists, advances their positions, and is hailed by them, I suppose it really makes no difference.


you realize this is no more persuasive than the "but I have a black friend" argument?

great, so he's sometimes hired black people and gays and women. He's also still a bigot and discrimates against black people and the LGBT community and women overall.

pretty shocking how doing something good for an individual minority one time is apparently enough to cover your from accusations of bigotry based on the actions of a lifetime
(edited 14 hours ago)reportquote
#47
(message deleted)
SamuelHayden 14 hours ago#48
SamuelHayden posted...
@atmasabr posted...
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

Yours is a scarecrow.


explain
atmasabr 13 hours ago#49
SamuelHayden posted...
atmasabr posted...
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

Yours is a scarecrow.


explain


It's easy to belittle or condemn someone by calling them racist, but in this case the "racism" of (if I remember correctly) rounding up large swaths of suspected illegal immigrants is a lot more indirect and subjective. That's the basic strawman: where you take a call of racism that some of the country thinks is racist and some if not most think is not racist, and then you use it to condemn someone as "racist", a moral charge that everyone is supposed to hate.

(So to explain why I find even greater fault in your position.) 

That is not to say that I think Arpaio was the model of caution and crossing his moral t's... but that's the point. The reason Arpaio got held in contempt isn't because he believed in racial profiling. It's because he put his own professional motivations ahead of the amount of vigilance the law required of him.

That's not pardoning a racist. That's pardoning someone who put his own professional motivations first. And what were his professional motivations? Rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants. For public safety, as I'm sure his argument goes.

So to sum up, "Trump pardoned a racist" is saying that Trump pardoned someone who put his professional motivations ahead of an ethical obligation to avoid a fault of racism that half the country doesn't even agree is racism. That's calling "racist" at something two degrees removed from it.
Do your own research!
TonyKojima 13 hours ago#50
atmasabr posted...
SamuelHayden posted...
atmasabr posted...
Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

Yours is a scarecrow.


explain


It's easy to belittle or condemn someone by calling them racist, but in this case the "racism" of (if I remember correctly) rounding up large swaths of suspected illegal immigrants is a lot more indirect and subjective. That's the basic strawman: where you take a call of racism that some of the country thinks is racist and some if not most think is not racist, and then you use it to condemn someone as "racist", a moral charge that everyone is supposed to hate.

(So to explain why I find even greater fault in your position.) 

That is not to say that I think Arpaio was the model of caution and crossing his moral t's... but that's the point. The reason Arpaio got held in contempt isn't because he believed in racial profiling. It's because he put his own professional motivations ahead of the amount of vigilance the law required of him.

That's not pardoning a racist. That's pardoning someone who put his own professional motivations first. And what were his professional motivations? Rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants. For public safety, as I'm sure his argument goes.

So to sum up, "Trump pardoned a racist" is saying that Trump pardoned someone who put his professional motivations ahead of an ethical obligation to avoid a fault of racism that half the country doesn't even agree is racism. That's calling "racist" at something two degrees removed from it.

No he is a racist.
Though the XBOX 360 is good in theory, it's hardware limitations say otherwise - Hideo Kojima 
PSN - Guncrazy56
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    atmasabr 14 hours ago#51
    (atmasabr, I think that's really three degrees removed from racism. You forgot that the subject is President Trump.)

    Oh.
    Do your own research!
    SamuelHayden 4 hours ago#52
    @atmasabr posted...
    SamuelHayden posted...
    atmasabr posted...
    Literally pardoned a f***ing racist

    There's strawman arguments and there's actual living scarecrows.

    Yours is a scarecrow.


    explain


    It's easy to belittle or condemn someone by calling them racist, but in this case the "racism" of (if I remember correctly) rounding up large swaths of suspected illegal immigrants is a lot more indirect and subjective. That's the basic strawman: where you take a call of racism that some of the country thinks is racist and some if not most think is not racist, and then you use it to condemn someone as "racist", a moral charge that everyone is supposed to hate.

    (So to explain why I find even greater fault in your position.) 

    That is not to say that I think Arpaio was the model of caution and crossing his moral t's... but that's the point. The reason Arpaio got held in contempt isn't because he believed in racial profiling. It's because he put his own professional motivations ahead of the amount of vigilance the law required of him.

    That's not pardoning a racist. That's pardoning someone who put his own professional motivations first. And what were his professional motivations? Rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants. For public safety, as I'm sure his argument goes.

    So to sum up, "Trump pardoned a racist" is saying that Trump pardoned someone who put his professional motivations ahead of an ethical obligation to avoid a fault of racism that half the country doesn't even agree is racism. That's calling "racist" at something two degrees removed from it.


    You do know he detained legal US citizens and held them up on purpose on fake or exaggerated charges, simply because they were hispanic right?

    You do know he chose not to investigate many, many cases of child sex abuse because those children were hispanic right?
    atmasabr 3 hours ago#53
    @SamuelHayden

    This is the first I am hearing of both of these accusations.

    I pay a little attention to stories about Sheriff Arpaio. I think you are overreaching tremendously and that you will never be able to prove either of them.

    Start with the second. That will be the more clear-cut one and, I believe, the most likely to unravel.
    Do your own research!
    (edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
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